‘Hacks’ Creators Reveal Ava and Deborah’s Wild Episode 7 Storyline Was a “Long Time” Coming

Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for Hacks Season 5, Episode 7

There’s nothing more stressful for a creator of a critically-acclaimed series than a final season. Thankfully, Jen Statsky, Lucia Aniello, and Paul W. Downs, co-creators of HBO Max’s brilliant comedy series Hacks, took this responsibility very seriously. Over the course of five carefully-crafted seasons, we’ve watched the chaotic, dysfunctional, toxic, and heartwarming relationship between Deborah Vance (Jean Smart), a legendary and at times, problematic, stand-up comedian, and her 20-something comedy writer sidekick, Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder), as it’s evolved in unexpected and poignant ways. Landing the plane without turbulence was on everyone’s mind, as well as making a final season that’s as funny and heartfelt as all the episodes that have come before it.

Something that Season 5 of Hacks doesn’t sacrifice is pure silliness, with Episode 7 serving as the perfect example. Coming off of a storyline that put Deborah and Ava on opposite ends of a big financial and creative decision makes this over-the-top, truly hilarious episode with exceptional guest stars Leslie Bibb and Cherry Jones that much more fun. This season is undeniably for the fans, and “Montecito” proves it.

During this interview with Collider, showrunners and co-creators Jen Statsky and Lucia Aniello talk about how much thought went into hiding Easter eggs for the “hardcore” fans, what it was like to direct Ava’s big surprise party and how they decided tackle a heavier theme of AI impacting creativity, as well as everything that went into Ava and Deborah’s fake lesbian couple storyline.

Jen Statsky and Lucia Aniello Made ‘Hacks’ Season 5 for the Die-Hard Fans

“The more you put into the show, the more you get out of it.”

COLLIDER: I just want to start by saying this season is really, really fantastic. And sincerely, thank you. The characters, the storylines mean a lot to me.

LUCIA ANIELLO: I’m so glad you like it because you’re kind of the first person who we’re talking to who has seen a lot of it. So actually, I’m like, “tell me everything!”

What I really, really appreciated, especially as it’s the final season, were a lot of fun little winks and references to early in the series. Deborah gets closure with DJ and Marty, we go back to the antique shop, Kiki plays Blackjack. It’s very cute and satisfying as a viewer. How much thought went into that when you’re breaking the season?

JEN STATSKY: We’ve always taken it really seriously to try to make a show that the fans will love, and we’re thinking about what people want to see and what will feel satisfying. That pressure is no greater than in the final season of a show, so it was really important to us to make this world feel like all the loose ends were tied up and give everybody a satisfying ending and make sure that nothing was left on the table that you’re like, “Oh, wait, what about that? Nothing ever happened with that.” So, I’m glad that it resonated because we definitely spent a lot of time we were writing and making it to give service to that, because it was important to us and because the characters are real to us. These are real people to us, and you want to see them have the ending that they deserve.

ANIELLO: And so much of that is for the real, hardcore fans, because it is the kind of show that there’s so many… well, we try to do so many Easter eggs and layers and references and things. The more you put into the show, the more you get out of it. This is the season for the people who are the true fans of the show.

Directing Ava’s Surprise Party in ‘Hacks’ Season 5 Was More Complicated Than You Might Realize

“[Deborah] knows her in this really unique way.”

Image via HBO Max

Lucia, you directed Episode 2, a fun surprise party for Ava. What was it like to direct a party?

ANIELLO: Oh, gosh, well, at this point, I’ve directed so many parties. It’s such a funny thing, when you’re writing it, like, “What is a fun party? What do you have at parties?” [Laughs] Then you have to think, “well, what would Deborah think Ava would want for a party?”

She knows she likes these kinds of foods. She would want cupcakes from a queer bakery, and also, what is a queer bakery? She’d want kombucha, she would ask her mom what she thinks she would want, and of course, her mom’s references for Ava would be so dated. We really go through the mechanisms of how Deborah would think and some of it is personal how she knows her, but also, she knows her in this really unique way, this mentee… twisted mentee, best friends, soulmates… how do you plan a party for that person? It’s not like it’s her daughter, it’s not that kind of relationship. It was really fun to think about how she would do it, and also, the blown-up photos were so sweet.

STATSKY: Yes, three real photos of Hannah.

ANIELLO: I think the thing that we kind of keep laughing about as we watch it is how few people there are. Ava doesn’t have a lot of friends, and that’s kind of the point at the end of the episode. It’s the idea of how close they’ve become and how that has left room in each other’s lives for not too many other people. Many of them are their co-workers. But it’s so funny because, at this point, if I had somebody throw me a birthday party and ask who my friends were, it would be all the people I work with. I guess I can just speak for myself. I can relate. [Laughs]

It was very sweet, Ava and Deborah’s moment where Ava says, “I’m your number one fan.” It’s a nice full circle moment with the title of the episode.

‘Hacks’ Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky Knew That Episode 6 Would Be Hard To Pull Off

“That was a really delicate balance for us.”

Image via HBO Max

Jumping to Episode 6, Jen, your directorial debut with the episode. It could be a little bit heavy at times with the subject matter and just what’s going on in the world right now. What drew you to Episode 6?

STATSKY: In terms of directing, it wasn’t necessarily that I wanted to direct that one more than others. It was more in terms of us wanting to tell that story about AI, like you’re saying, it is a heavy subject matter, so it definitely can run the risk of feeling heavy handed or preachy. That was a really delicate balance for us as we were writing that and shooting it and directing and making it, wanting to make sure we balance addressing the subject matter seriously and having a POV on it, but also it being funny first and foremost, which, luckily with Jean and Hannah and Alex Moffat, who’s great as our guest star in the episode, you can always have it be funny. There are jokes and it doesn’t feel like it goes too far into one direction, hopefully, as we always try to write things that are happening in the world. It’s a great privilege to be able to make a show like this. For us, it felt important, we really wanted to talk about this topic, because, as you know, it’s heavily discussed and heavily influencing our world right now.

It was really refreshing to see Deborah be so selfless. Ava is really sinking into her, and I was very relieved with her decision.

Ava and Deborah’s “Montecito” Storyline Was a Fun, Clever Way To Unpack Their Complicated Relationship

“They’re soulmates.”

Image via HBO Max

I’ve laughed many times this season really hard. There’s a lot of physical comedy, which I always appreciate. I feel like shows don’t do that enough. But I don’t think I’ve laughed harder than I have in Episode 7, when we head to Montecito. I have so many questions. First of all, how did that storyline come about? Because it was fantastic.

ANIELLO: I think we’ve been talking about doing a story where they are mistaken for a couple. We’ve been talking about that kind of a thing for a long time. Obviously, didn’t really quite work in Season 4, and in Season 3, it just felt like she was on this other…it just didn’t really feel like it fit into those seasons. But it also really helped, I think, to do it in Season 5, when they are having this argument in front of these two women, to be able to reference so many things from their lives, like, oh, “I have hit her, I did sue her…” It just felt like it made the relationship that much harder to deny when you had all these things from their history that could come up. It made it less of a joke, but there being more of a bigger point, which is that they do have a relationship. Until this episode, it never really got sexual, but you can’t deny that their relationship is so much more complicated than friends and so much more complicated than co-workers. I don’t really know how to describe it other than that they are soulmates. Work soulmates, friend soulmates. They are soulmates. So for that to be assumed that it’s also a sexual relationship felt like a natural thing to want to play.

STATSKY: They have so much history, their dynamic in terms of what someone would talk about in couples therapy, is exactly what it is. It was really fun to get to unpack all that. And like what Lucia is saying, by waiting until Season 5, when there’s all this history and all they’ve been through, that makes you realize like, oh, yeah, this is a long, long love story that has been told. And then to also just have a lot of fun with it with Leslie Bibb and Cherry Jones, who are fantastic.

They were so good. Was there a lot of improvising at all? Or was it all on the page?

ANIELLO: There was a little bit.

STATSKY: Yeah, there was a little bit. In their last shot, when they’re walking away after Deborah got her jumpsuit, and they’re telling them to get out of there, it was scripted that she says, “let’s adopt another disabled dog,” but then when she slaps her ass and Cherry’s like, “oh, they, they shit everywhere. Don’t hit my ass. You know I hate my puddin’ ass.”

ANIELLO: “Deborah Vancey, little petunia.”

STATSKY: That was a Cherry improv.

ANIELLO: And then when Leslie’s like, “oh, I feel sick.” That was improvised. There are little moments here and there.

STATSKY: Cherry and Leslie were so immediately, like lived-in. The characters felt so real, so real as a couple. They were just so phenomenal.

ANIELLO: It weirdly in my mind, I’m like, they are a couple. [Laughs] I know they’re not.

STATSKY: When I think about them, I think about them living together. I think about them out on that patio, having coffee, reading the newspaper.

ANIELLO: We have met their partners. [Laughs]

STATSKY: Yeah, they’re both other partners. They’re not married,

ANIELLO: Yet, in our hearts and our real brains.

STATSKY: Like if I had a wedding, I would invite them.

It’s been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for such a great show.

STATSKY: Thank you so much for watching.

ANIELLO: And writing about it. I really appreciate it.

New episodes of Hacks Season 5 air Thursdays on HBO Max.